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Neddy Astudillo: Well welcome to all creation, podcast everybody

Neddy Astudillo: mit Ctl. And I am delete you. I am a Presbyterian pastor in the United States and coordinator of the climate, justice and faith Online Spanish program

Neddy Astudillo: for the Pacific Theological Seminary. And I'm also here with you, serving as the editor of the Winter 2,024 collection of articles and podcasts for all creation org. During this season of all creation, we are hearing from the voices of Muslim and spiritual women and leaders from around.

Neddy Astudillo: The world, a working for environmental and climate justice.

Neddy Astudillo: And today I have a pleasure to share the space with Nana.

Neddy Astudillo: a firm, a colleague, a friend.

Neddy Astudillo: who is joining us from Dubai, as she attends Cup 28,

Neddy Astudillo: and, as some of you know, Cop 28 is taking place in a Muslim country, so it is good to hear voices of faith like Nana's A, who is the founder of Eco-five, living

Neddy Astudillo: and initiator of the Muslim Ecohitjeta movement.

Neddy Astudillo: She's an ambassador for green faith

and an alumni in the Bayan Islamic graduate school. Nana is from Indonesia and lives in California. United States. So I'm very excited to welcome our special guest today.

Neddy Astudillo: but before I have a chance to give her a chance to share with us her story, a very unique story

which connects her to her mother country, to the forest, to her faith, and even to a tsunami

Neddy Astudillo: which cause great damage to the island where she's from

Neddy Astudillo: but also where her environmental justice journey in a way begins. So maybe is moved to new levels. She'll tell us more. But I want to share with you, Nana. That I recently had the chance to to be in Indonesia and to feel and witness a some of the struggles, but also the beauty and the resilience of your people. So what you have to share with us today really is already touching my heart.

Neddy Astudillo: And after this trip in particular, which was a consultation organized by the world community of reform, churches on economy, ecology, and faith. I then had a chance to go to Sri Lanka

Neddy Astudillo: for another consultation on the role of spirituality, for resilience in the midst of climate change and the loss of biodiversity. All of these, just to say to that I was struck by the words of Reverend Sushitar A, who leads the National Council of Churches in Sri Lanka

Neddy Astudillo: mit Ctl. And he said that the tsunami of 2,004, and made him recognize the difference between how humans act and how nature acts, or the ocean, and in the destructive force of the tsunami he recognized the earth needs to respond first to a discomfort. You know the Earthwick.

Neddy Astudillo: and then they need to cover herself, and once she returned to her former normal ways, a united with the rest of her natural brothers and sisters

Neddy Astudillo: mit Ctl. And looking at the way that we human beings act. You know he, you know we live who we live in society, and for him special in Sri Lanka, after many years of civil war, but now also 200, and

Neddy Astudillo: in the midst of climate change as a new challenge. He said that we have to go back to our normal lifestyles, to our formal ways.

Neddy Astudillo: We need to settle back to our former position, living peacefully with our neighbors, creatures, nature to give birth to new life like they also witness in Sri Lanka after the tsunami. So well. Your life has also been impacted by the same tsunami that he was referring to, and you became an activist, a

Neddy Astudillo: work with the World Wildlife Fund for several years in the Reconstruction. The green reconstruction efforts in Indonesia after the wake of the tsunami in the earthquake. So we want to hear more of your story, so I'll stop here. So again. Thank you, Nana very much for being with us today.

Nana Firman: Well, we just gracious, thank you so much, Nettie. It's very nice to see you again, even though, like through zoom it's my pleasure always

Nana Firman: to to share with you, and also like for this opportunity. And yes, I am here. In Dubai. It's been like 5 6 days now for me in Dubai, attending Cop 28.

Nana Firman: And it's been like, like, you know, another experience being at cop. And I just want to share this. That

Nana Firman: this is the first cop that we have a faith affiliance

Nana Firman: so the first ever affiliates at cop. And then, as you know, like Neddy and I have been at cop like many, many times in different countries.

Nana Firman: and we've been struggling to have a faith by billions, because when we want to share from faith initiatives or faith voices, or even multi faith like, you know, like actions. We're always struggle like, where do we? Where are we going to have a space like, you know, on different, like other people's, like our countries or initiatives or different communities. And we've been.

Nana Firman: say that we want faith for billions with billions. And finally, this is the first time it's not perfect. but it's a start. And and I really feel like the difference, because then we have so many

Nana Firman: events and session in the face of affiliates that we don't have to go

Nana Firman: around and trying to find a space for us. But then we have the space now. So we have. You know, like. Thank God, we have a lot of like activities in the face affiliates. So so like, I really like, you know, like, it's it's a blessing for this. At least, you know, if we we're not.

Nana Firman: you know, like accomplishing the whole objective of this cop. At least we have this as a history to have a faith. So speaking about faith, as you mentioned about the tsunami at the end of 2,004 that happens in the just off the Sumatra island in Indonesia, in the northern, in the northern part of Sumatra Island.

Nana Firman: That's like, I think, like the largest earthquake like II think, until today, and then, like, you know, followed by

Nana Firman: a huge tsunami, because it's it's just the off the cost of the cost of Northern so much right in Ije Province. But then the impact

Nana Firman: was felt all the way to East Africa. So you mentioned about Sri Lanka and Sri Lanka. Yes, they were affected pretty bad also, because they're not that far the like. Their location from the off the coast of North Sumat, Northern Sumatra.

Nana Firman: So yes, we had the back. Then we have the collaboration also with Southern India, Sri Lanka, the Maldives, and even to all the way to East Africa. To like, you know, working on the recovery of tsunami like including, like part of Malaysia and Thailand as well.

Nana Firman: So after the tsunami I was being called by wf in Indonesia they were Wildlife Fund

Nana Firman: to help out. On looking at the the special planning that was going to be done. After this tsunami, because everything was destroyed.

Nana Firman: So while I find was already working before on like over there, like trying to sort of like policy intervention about the nature like the the nature, management, natural resources, management, however, because of the tsunami. Everything is just

Nana Firman: like, you know, like destroyed. So that

Nana Firman: draft the policy drop was not.

Nana Firman: It was was invalid, you know, like. So we have. We had to start all over again. What should we do now? Because the recovery of it obviously was, was in front of our us at that time, and

Nana Firman: the concern was

Nana Firman: that's going to be a massive reconstruction to be done.

Nana Firman: But then, how do we resource the you know, like the the like. The building, you know, like materials, and so on, and so forth.

Nana Firman: especially back then the big the big like, you know, like meat was the timber! So the timber to do the recovery, because so I think about 200,000 houses that

Nana Firman: needed to be built at that time, and then and then we we were very concerned, like, where do people like get the the timber? So there is this thing that that was like

Nana Firman: the top, because the

Nana Firman: Aj. Was also having like this conflict for a long time. So because of the social conflict.

Nana Firman: the the the forest was intact. Nobody like touch the forest, so it's very fristing. But after the tsunami, because the need is high for timber, they said, oh, we can just cut the forest.

Nana Firman: Now that you know we need a lot of timber. And then

we said, No.

Nana Firman: don't cut the forest because you just had a tsunami from the ocean just now. But if you cut the forest next year, gonna have the tsunami from the mountain

Nana Firman: right like, you know, landslide, and you know, like and the flat floss, and so on and so forth. So we're trying to like, you know. Part of the green reconstruction is to ensure that you know the building material is a source from the Socio, from the sustainable resources. So so then, the timber is part of, like, you know, a a big part of that

Nana Firman: like, you know how we source the timber to the to get like the sustainable resources.

Nana Firman: And and we asked the a lot of the the humanitarian aid that was like con, like they came to it to do the reconstruction. We actually help out on building the guidelines that instead of like bringing money? Can they source the timber from a sustainable resources?

Nana Firman: So we work also with the with the like.

Nana Firman: you know, like timber companies like sustainable timber companies all over the world. So the in kind, like, you know, like 8, instead of like bringing the money and purchase the timber in Indonesia, and then they're going to just like Trigger, the people to cut the forest. So so those kind of like a very like, you know, like

Nana Firman: very tough campaign, I think, like, you know, because I wasn't re really ready to do that. But then, you know it, it was like, like, you know that was the need on the ground. And also another thing is like

Nana Firman: to. How do we restore the damage in the coastal area

Nana Firman: because the coastal area was completely damaged. And one of the my program with that was, it's called Green Coast, which is like re greening the coastal area that was damaged. So so part of that is like replanting, doing, replanting with the community.

Nana Firman: and remember that this community lost everything. They lost all their family members. They lost their homes. They're living in in the like 10 the refugee tents because of that. Until, like, you know, waiting for their homes to be to be rebuilt.

Nana Firman: But then, like in the meantime, I have this like coast, like, you know, regaining the coast. So I wanted to like bring this, you know, sustainability with the people, and let's do the plan thing. But then, of course, they said, no.

Nana Firman: Is that like. why do I have to plan to like, you know, like we lost our families, we need our homes. And then here you are

Nana Firman: asking us to plan the the main group at that time, and I was. But I said, This is for, like, you know, like to protect ecosystem, because the main group will protect the people. And you know, like like, in terms of like the from the ocean, and then

Nana Firman: And then they said, No, no, we are not going to do it, and I was very frustrated because I you know, I put all the jargon like, you know, like sustainability

Nana Firman: ecosystem and so forth. But then, in the midst of my frustration, a friend of mine told me like, Why don't you engage from the Islamic tradition, Islamic teaching?

Nana Firman: Because the the people of Aceh is very devout. Muslim, like, you know the community. And I was like what

Nana Firman: Islam and

Nana Firman: like environment. I'm not sure like, what's the what is the relationship and the connection? But then I wanted to be successful in my in my, you know program. So I said, Okay, let me like, you know, looked up in the holy Koran.

Nana Firman: the the Muslim Scriptures, and then also the sooner which is the prophetic tradition from Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him. And then, to my surprise, I found so many, and I was like, Oh, my God! It's like a lot of this, like, you know, gems

Nana Firman: so, and then one of the Hadees, which is the saying of the prophet Muhammad is beyond him. But

Nana Firman: this is he said that even if the hour is near, like the end of the world, like, you know, the doomsday is near, and you have seedling in your hand.

Nana Firman: You must, you know, finish your planting. You still keep planting.

Nana Firman: And I was like, Oh, this is perfect. So I went back to the community, and I share that hadith

Nana Firman: the the saying of the proven, and

Nana Firman: to my surprise, the community respond the one before. They just like say, no, you know, like they didn't have to listen to it.

Nana Firman: and completely like change.

Nana Firman: you know, like the opposite. And I was like. And they said, like, Oh, yeah.

Nana Firman: they're familiar with that, you know, saying they said, Okay, this is like our doomsday, like, you know, we lost everything

Nana Firman: and if the profit said that, then we you know we must do it. So I have a I like. We had all the sibling already prepared, so

Nana Firman: immediately the change of like, you know just the response, and then we ended up planting like the whole coast of, I think, 17 districts, like, you know, in the whole coast was damaged. So it was. You know, it was a successful effort.

Nana Firman: And II was like.

Nana Firman: why didn't we, you know, like, engage like the people from their faith? Obviously, it's like they're.

Nana Firman: It's like something that is near and dear to them, and they're familiar

Nana Firman: with, and they do it from the heart rather than I mean, like, you know, I was like trying to engage from their head, and like

Nana Firman: and like saying, this is like sustainability, and so on and so forth. But I mean, like, eventually, I explain about the sustainability, the ecosystem, why we did the planting and so on, and so, and then why we don't want to cut the forest, you know, even though we need the timber, we need to find a different way

Nana Firman: eventually, like people get it. But the first action is to engage

Nana Firman: with something that they believe in and their near end dear. So that's how. And after that I just feel like, Oh, I need to learn more about this, even though I'm with them, and I'm familiar with some of the verses and the and the hadith that I've heard like those since I was a little, but I didn't put the connection together

Nana Firman: that even Christian faith in the last 20 years, 30 years there has also been

Neddy Astudillo: an effort to reconnect with our own faith tradition, and understand the treasures and the gems like you mentioned. From our own faith that can help us figure out how to solve our our most crucial environmental

Neddy Astudillo: issues of the time and the the crisis in the in the planet

Neddy Astudillo: Mit, Ctl, and I want to make sure I mentioned that you. You also wrote an article for all creation just recently called

Neddy Astudillo: enjoying good and forbidding wrong. And and you mentioned there that, islam remains an enormous source of cultural, moral, and political influence in many Muslim majority nations. And we see the importance of religions now, even a cup that, as you're mentioned enough for the first time, there being a faith pavilion.

Neddy Astudillo: so that means that the world is recognizing the the world of faith traditions really to move us in the right direction, to move us back, I guess, like tsunami back into our order, right? A peaceful with with each other with the natural world.

Neddy Astudillo: is there any other also story that you like to share? Of what? How the Muslim faith and people have been recognizing those treasures or gems that can help us today. And yeah, yeah, so I share this story. Also, at one of the session at at cop.

Nana Firman: it's called the Islamic social finance. For a climate action! We are trying to look also looking at the what is the like, you know, in the Islamic tradition, especially in a in a financing and a social movement. What can we get like, you know, like, from from the tradition that can help

Nana Firman: the you know, like our our climate action and soft this climate crisis. So one of like, you know. So I was sharing in in that session about the the concept of Walker, which is is it's it's one of the Islamic finance instruments.

Nana Firman: Usually it's it's a refer as an Islamic endowment. And it's like a long Islamic tradition for socioeconomic

Nana Firman: institution. Especially like design for equitable distribution of wealth and fulfillment of societal basic needs.

Nana Firman: And it's actually influenced the the establishment of English trust law back then. In the history. So if people are familiar with English trust law. It's a similar to that.

Nana Firman: So

Nana Firman: walk off in Arabic means to hold or to stop or to preserve.

Nana Firman: So when? when like this walk off like attempt is to preserve or to hold a property

Nana Firman: for a certain use, like good use, you know, cannot be cannot be for bad bad usage, but for good usage, and usually for for the benefits of the community or the society.

Nana Firman: So so it's sometimes it's called charitable trust also, like you know, like in other like, you know, I think, like I read in some article it's called Charitable right trust

Nana Firman: and it is like, you know, like like a property, or

Nana Firman: that is used for us like a a certain purpose. So, however, like, you know, it's something walk off

Nana Firman: is familiar with the Mo. Like, you know the Muslim usually like understand what is, walk off, however, like the the purpose of the the walk off. It's somehow it's kind of like a forgotten thing within the Islamic community, except

Nana Firman: for the purpose is for to build mosques. or to build orphanage. or to build schools, you know, like Islamic boarding schools.

Nana Firman: But then be like

Nana Firman: beyond that, it's sort of like we forgot about it. But in the in the history you walk up with use for

Nana Firman: for different kind of means, for example, if you if you have like a property that has like a a water spring, for example, or like you even want to purchase a what like a land or a a property of others that has the spring, the water spring that you want to purchase, and then you want to

Nana Firman: sort of like. Put that as

Nana Firman: your walk off. So you purchase. And then you said that I'm going to put this as a walk off. That means, like, you know, for the benefits of the the community. So everybody can get like, you know, I can take the re the water resources for free.

Nana Firman: and then that that property cannot be like, you know, like se sale in the future, like, for example, if you have children, they cannot inheritance that, because that's already you put the stop of the use for any other commercial. But you like dedicated that to, you know, like this is your like, you know, like your endowment

Nana Firman: that only got can give you the like. You know the rewards. So that is, this is like something like part of the Islamic tradition, but, like what I I mentioned somehow, like the purpose is only like nowadays that we see only to Bill Moss or orphanage, or like Islamic boarding schools. So in Aj after this tsunami

Nana Firman: when we're done with the reconstruction, and so on and so forth. Nice, you know everything.

Nana Firman: Then the the you know, just regular development comes like came in right? So the I again, the trap is to our forest, because in Indonesia the biggest threat is the forest conversion. So the forest conversion that, like, you know, the big threat, besides logging to like, you know, like like just the deforestation. So the forest conversion to palm oil plantation.

Nana Firman: So that's the big threat for the in Indonesia. Because then, you know, like from the pristine forest. You know the, the.

Nana Firman: the the rainforest. It's converted to the single the monoculture, like, you know, the single species like plantation, which is destroying like the whole, like ecosystem as well as the soil itself. So

Nana Firman: you know, like back then, I was like, this is like the end of my time in it. I was in it for 5 years after the tsunami and the end of my time there was, you know, like when it's already, like, you know, everything was already done of the reconstruction and the recovery and the the development was starting to, you know. Kind of

Nana Firman: come coming in then, you know, the threat is there? And then I was just actually like throwing this word without even knowing

Nana Firman: like, you know, if that's possible or not, I said like, why don't we just put the forest as a walk-up?

Nana Firman: And then

Nana Firman: I guess II just like throw that word. II didn't even consult it with the the Muslim Juris, because in Islam there's like a Jewish prudence that you cannot just like make something, and like you know just how you feel

Nana Firman: so we don't even like like consulting. I was just throwing that word, but I guess like my like my like stuff at that time in wf, and like other local Ngo and actually thought like, Hey, that's a good idea.

you know. So they run with it. And they actually develop that. And probably they also, like

Nana Firman: Consulted with some local like, you know, like religious leaders and like Islamic jurists like, is that possible. And and actually, it's possible in there is like, you know, in the tradition

Nana Firman: so then they started, like, you know, put like, you know, money together. So it's this is like a very

Nana Firman: grassroots initiative. So it's no big money. It's just like people chip in. And then they started

Nana Firman: purchasing one hectare of the the area where the forest is is being threat threaten to be converted to palm oil plantation. So, starting from one hectare.

Nana Firman: That's like in 2,012, I think. And and now it's almost 5 hectares, you know. Like, Thank thank goodness for that. So it's it's been like, you know, like the like. It's it's a very local and grassroots effort

Nana Firman: and and then, this, this initiative was heard, you know, by others in Indonesia.

Nana Firman: and now we have like walk up for us

Nana Firman: in a several part in Indonesia, you know, like, and then they initiated like in the different ways, like the one in, was like very local grassroots, some like work with universities, some with the local like, you know, like institutions. So it's I mean, like, it's, it's a different model. But then, you know, this is the trigger to see that

Nana Firman: as the work of base for us is.

Nana Firman: it's part of the solution of, you know, like the threat to our forest, as well as you know, like as the solution for the the climate crisis. And so what happened is like in it's very interesting, because, you know, like, there is a big one of the like, you know, like the the pristine animal in Sumatra is the Sumatran tiger, which is like.

Nana Firman: you know, like they're they're endangered species now.

Nana Firman: And so that location for the walkup base for us in it.

Nana Firman: It's not it's not the home range of of the tiger.

Nana Firman: However, after like, you know this many years.

Nana Firman: So some of, like the the activist, found the track of of the

Nana Firman: the what is that? The the footprints

Nana Firman: of the of the tiger so apparently, than they did the the research, the female tiger hide their cubs

Nana Firman: in that walk of forests. because and you feel safe.

Neddy Astudillo: Hmm!

Nana Firman: Now it's you know, like it's the ecosystem is back. And then also there's like, when I went there with my husband. There's a big beast

Nana Firman: like, you know the the the, you know, like the

Nana Firman: the whole thing in the the beehive in the morning we were like, Oh, my God! It's so huge! And also some like, you know, like

Nana Firman: bird species appear.

Nana Firman: Now, it's like this is part of like, also it's being used as the

Nana Firman: nature schools. And then. university student can do research, and so on and so forth. So like. First, we just said, this is like, you know, we wanted to

Nana Firman: have this as part of the to protect the forest. But now

Neddy Astudillo: the community and society have the benefit. So this is a beautiful, it's beautiful to see that the that fruit of that work that you did so many years ago, Nana and

Neddy Astudillo: and makes me think that there's nothing that could stop what from happening all over the world, where where Muslim faith is put into practice right in in properties of the Muslim people, and

Neddy Astudillo: and not Moslem, you know I feel inspired by that. I'm trying to think you know, what similar principle value do we have within the Christian faith that could also help us.

Neddy Astudillo: Protect areas

Neddy Astudillo: in such a way

Neddy Astudillo: from exploitation and become shelters for for wildlife. Knowing to continue.

Neddy Astudillo: II would assume another countries where Islamic faith is not necessarily the the dominant. But if there are people that are Muslim that

Nana Firman: have properties that they can definitely put into practice is present.

Nana Firman: And all those like me can just follow through and do the same, because it's the right way to

Neddy Astudillo: to settle back with Nature, to be more like mother's side.

Neddy Astudillo: yeah, that's that's beautiful. And thank for sharing with us what what is happening is matter right now. And those those stories that have to do with our own consumption and lifestyles, and

Neddy Astudillo: how we are affecting people, some speaking as someone within the United States? No.

Nana Firman: and, Nadi, if I can add another one, so that so like one of the principles like, you know, like when we started this walk up this forest is this another? There's another hadith the saying of the profit that related to the planting of trees, which is like in Islam planting of a tree is considered a charity

Nana Firman: so and and like so like when you plan a tree, and then, you know, like others.

Nana Firman: have get benefits out of it. It's not necessarily a person, because sometimes in with we plant trees, we thought, Oh, you know, like we can, you know, get the fruits, or like, you know, like or or other things that you know like from from the trees. But then, you know, but we hardly like think that the birds will benefit the insects, and then other things that you know will benefit. Then when they benefit it, that's

Nana Firman: our charity to to them, and we're the one who gets the reward.

And then and there's this

Nana Firman: thing in Islam that called the recurring, recurring charity, or in Arabic schools.

Nana Firman: So because, like the profits are when when a person dies, or his or her acts come to an end by but 3 things. the recurring charity.

Nana Firman: the knowledge that is benefiting for other people.

Nana Firman: and also the pious offsprings, the children that praise for this person. So those are the whatever, like your other things, is already come to end. But those 3 things. So the recording charity.

Nana Firman: it's something big in the Muslim community that they wanted to have this, that after like, it's go beyond like their their time on this earth. So even like after you, you die, you want this recording. Charity is still there, and we forget sometime that this planting tree is part of

Nana Firman: this recording charity and and so then in the workforce also, we did some replanting, you know, like the like to ensure that this, you know, like the the trees there. So I when I visited with my husband in

Nana Firman: 2,017, we planned a few, you know, a few trees like the seats, like, you know, and it's already big. Now, the the tree, the tree. So it's it.

Nana Firman: It is like something that is part of that also that that also that you know people see that from, you know, like that perspective as well

Nana Firman: in Indonesia. Is it possible to continue buying more and more land to make sure that that land is under the Walkup tradition. So that is like, you know. So then, like, you know from that initiative. Now, it's already

Nana Firman: like sort of spread out in other parts of Indonesia. They it's like we started to see this popping up the walk up base for us and this particular in Aceh

Nana Firman: in 2020, I think it was acknowledged as the site a historical site also, because that's the first walkup base for us in Indonesia. So now they also like Hold that, you know, kind of like.

Nana Firman: you know, like recognition that they are the one who like this site is the first time, like the first one

Nana Firman: that you know like kind of like. Revive this idea again.

Neddy Astudillo: Wow! Great wow! Well, what a journey Nana you've had! And you continue to have! You know you're now you're a student at the Bay and Islamic graduate school not much more. I think maybe you're to be done soon. And now you're a cop 28, one of many other cops that you've been present.

Neddy Astudillo: Maybe as a last word. Is there anything from cop to an A that you know we need to know, as we also want to do our part. to achieve climate justice, to protect the most vulnerable peoples, any words of hope or challenge that you may want to leave us with, or you are yourself being feeling moved by your experience at this cup in Dubai.

Nana Firman: Well, I think like in this cop also, we hear a lot of the climate justice, the word climate, justice, and

Nana Firman: and we also see. You know the fossil fuel industry is still very strong. At present at cop. And then we again.

Nana Firman: what we need is also to like, you know, based on my article to, you know, the like

Nana Firman: kind of like before being wrong, which is like, put the stop, like, you know, like we need to stop

Nana Firman: this. You know, fossil fuel like greed that we need to transition adjust transition to

Nana Firman: to clean, enable

Nana Firman: energy resources. but. like, you know, not just renewable energy, but some like, you know, the energy that is

Nana Firman: accessible and affordable

Nana Firman: like for all. So I mean, if we just talk about renewable energy. But it's very expensive, and people cannot afford it. Then, you know, we're not talking about that. We want this, you know, like this, just transition

Nana Firman: to like, you know, to to happen and and energy for all that is clean, renewable, affordable and accessible.

Nana Firman: and also to help those, you know, like communities that is like that are like, you know, working or engage on the fossil fuel industry before. How do they transition? Because we don't want to leave anyone behind?

Nana Firman: So this is, I think, like one of the message that we need to like, you know, to remind, like everyone again and again, especially the world leaders, the governments as well as like, you know, like

Nana Firman: the business like, you know, like entities, that they have the. You know they have the resources, they have the the the like. You know the

Nana Firman: the means to make this happen. So we need that, you know, because we and we don't have time. So we need to do it now

Nana Firman: and and and and if we talk about climate justice movement, we need to recognize that this climate, Emma, emergency is is intertwined

Nana Firman: with many other cross system of oppression

Nana Firman: including like colonization. And you mentioned exploitation

Nana Firman: and also racism and many others.

Nana Firman: So we need to keep in mind that at this cop, 28 in in Dubai that there will be no justice if we don't recognize the interdependent system

Nana Firman: that has increased the vulnerabilities

Nana Firman: among marginalized communities and front line communities.

Neddy Astudillo: Amen. Thank you, Nana, very much for your witness for being there. For all your work, your inspiring journey for sharing it with us. And yes, as she was saying it, please do read her article on all creation call enjoying good and forbidding wrong, there she gives us a lot of all this beautiful and precious knowledge from her Islamic tradition. And much more that we can learn from Nana.

Nana Firman: Well, Nana, blessings and best wishes for the next few more days that you have a cop. And again, thank you. Thank you for joining us and for everybody to that is here with us. Thank you for for being on this conversation with us. Thank you, Nedi. Thank you. Everyone.