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Rev. Billy Tweedie 0:19
So Glad You're in this space today. Chris, thank you for the care you have for people in creation and so many other things. I'm sneaking thank you for making this dream come true and making those here today, this important discussion today. It is an honor to get to host this event here at this space. This is the kind of stuff I love. I spent the morning watching people gardening, playing music, cooking food, creating good community. That is just any pastor's dream as far as I'm concerned. on a Saturday afternoon, happy faces and good food and drink. And so thank you all. I just want to start us the first prayer in our prayers and Thanksgiving in the Book of Common Prayer is for joy and God's creation. So I'm just gonna read that prayer. And I'm gonna turn this mic over to Chris to introduce the panel. The Lord be with you. Let us pray. Heavenly Father who has filled the world with beauty, open our eyes, Behold thy gracious hand and all thy works, that rejoicing in that whole creation, we may learn to serve the with gladness for the sake of Him, through whom all things were made Thy Son Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen. Thank you all for being here. All right.

Chris Searles 1:53
All right. So glad everybody's here. We want to like open this up to a pretty invigorating conversation, but pretend like we're comfortable. It's Saturday, let's talk to each other. This event was inspired by Reverend Dr. Dan Bailey on here. And a quick story on that is actually in this program. But we did, we have a project called ball creation.org, that produces content every quarter. That's for people with faith and spiritual practice, to connect them to biodiversity, to help them make that connection through the sacred texts. And through the contemporary conversations about the sacred texts. We're doing this because I grew up in First Baptist Church with a really great sort of right practice, the Southern Baptist family, believe it or not, and then I went back to that church, as an adult said, Hey, we should work on environmental stuff. And they said, What are you talking about? We don't do that here. I was like, wait, I grew up here. This is what we do. What do you know? So I've been working on this divide between secular sacred bio regenerative self defined for 25 years, at least. And through this issue of all creations that Dan edited, which we have a pamphlet to promote outside of booklet. I think we landed on the sort of the answer that I was looking for, and what was missing when I went back to first Baptist in 2006, to say, hey, let's focus on some environmental solutions. This is a really exciting way to grow as a community. And, again, that people didn't really know how to relate to it didn't make sense, there wasn't any context. So Anna, let's talk a little more about what he kind of uncovered about Genesis one, verse 26, chapter one, verse 26. But in short, the idea is that we sort of have made the context fit our times. And of course, the text was not written in our time, we've changed the context. And we've changed the meaning of this idea of Dominion, being about domination, and what Dan's work, and then across the panel of people who participate in that issue, what that uncovered is that this is a very unrealistic interpretation, for a couple of good reasons I'll let them talk about. And then we had an issue, all creation in the summer, that was about connections. And we came to sort of a new sociological culmination around this idea of kinship. And so in Christian language, people talk about the Kingdom of God, which means, you know, a pyramid or a hierarchy or a triangle of domination, and so forth. But they tend to have God, kinship of all of us, is a new way, perhaps, or the old way, the original way of thinking of our identities. And what we are, who we are, how we relate to each other, how we care for each other, how we celebrate our differences, rather than the time this time where we're so amazed that we're not the same people. You know, one interesting factoid about what we are, where we are, is that every one of us is 50% of our DNA is the same as the plant right? We Literally emerged into a world of biodiversity. And all of the sacred texts talk about this idea that we're, we come into a world that's already got life in and yet the way we live as if that life doesn't matter, and my nonprofit that's called Bio integrity, which produces all creation, has done a bunch of research, to show through the academic research, that this idea of care as a strategy to address, climate change, species extinction, crisis, food crisis, poverty, drought, freshwater shortages, severe circulation, moisture circulation, this is the only way to regain those things is to restore the wilderness systems of our planet, the other life, or Planet of the habitats, and ecosystems. So this is what I'm passionate about. I've been trying to get this to consciousness to spread out. And these two things identity and right action that makes sense according to Pyro, regenerative reality, that we are made of, and we are inside of that exists only on this planet. With all that in mind, I want to introduce the panelists. We were talking today about how we are called to care for other life, in Genesis 126, each other, and ourselves. So from the Christian perspective, we have in Genesis 126, God saying, let them have dominion, meaning human beings, and it lists all of the life on earth, everything that creeps, crawls, flies and swims, right? And then Jesus says in the New Testament, Love thy neighbor as thyself, you are holy, and so am I. We are sacred, right, we are holy to each other. This is I think, that we're not living this way, as a society. And by taking care of seriously moving through people's traumas, people's depravity, despite taking all these challenges of the divisions, the polarizations through care, which is what each of these people has committed their lives here. We can all you know, really think of this as our best asset. I think, for transformation, we know we need breakthroughs. We know we need a culture, we need new values. And so I have come to this conclusion, that care is the best way to route that, whether your sacred secular or self defined in the way you have your worldview.

And so we're going to hear from each of these people about care from their perspective. And I'll, I'll end with Steve. So here's the kind of introductions. Over here is Reverend Dr. Dan De Leon, I mentioned a second ago. He's a senior pastor at friends, UCC and Bryan College Station. Here's his daughter, Ruthie. They're gonna perform outside about 430 With room and preacher debt, and I grew up with them. Dan is, I think the most committed social justice advocate I know of, and that's, that's a that's a parent, Walter, where this guy shows up and doesn't have to be. Next to him is the venerable Jean. Jg Thank you. I just met her officially on Tuesday night. And she's one of the sweetest most genuinely kind people I've ever met. She's part of the or she's the director at the Obamas John Lynch one John eautiful.

With the 360s in the beautiful construction out there as a beautiful temple out there, that's her place. And her congregation that congregation is so much like a family more than any congregation I've been in a long time. They really love each other, they really spend time together. Next to her is, Reverend Jimmy Calhoun, is also a famous musician at an earlier time in his life, and still a legendary musician to people like me, that are dedicated musicians. He doesn't, you know, nobody likes to have themselves sacrificed or really, but he's an incredible bass player in his earlier life on them in the 90s. He became a pastor. He's written several books about his musical career, and how these things interact that we had lunch on Wednesday, and it's just integrity, you know, everything is integrity, there's, there's Jimmy is gonna give it to all real and just like the bass player, you know, it's either moving or not. So, Jimmy Kalamoon is a real honor to have him here today. Next to him is Kai are with MasterCard Harmon, pilots from a

Rev. Kiya Heartwood 9:28
church the Brazos Valley Valley.

Chris Searles 9:33
So, pasture research represses Valley, which is in Bryan College Station area. She's a great artist. I know her through her music first. And then she's also a pastor and I don't know much about pi as a pastor yet, but in the operation issue that's here she's featured and then her music is also featured. So it can use this booklet you can go into the boat pieces of her work and execute kya is Imam Islam Assad Imam is his title of like, under or venerable Islam as his first thing. And also the religion of Islam. I think you grew up here is a Gyptian parents that grew up here, once you take an engineering degree, memorize the Quran. And like I said, it's easy to do. But this this gentleman, I think is the most committed practitioner of faith I that I know of. And it is kind of how Muslims roll as it were. They really, really go day after day after day for their faith and their beliefs. And this idea of caring and being in relationship, which I think is a nexus of what care is about. It's not ideas. This is like feminine wisdom. This is listening, listening, listening, here, but it almost is really great to have him here. We're gonna start with him actually, the first question next to Islam is brand new and Red Lion. I met Brad about six weeks ago, and he blew me away. It's just got a depth and freshness to the whole creation care kind of conversation. And then it's clear from the way he conducts himself that he's you know, he's a people person. He's, he's the whole thing. So I'm really, really good. All right, it's awesome. To see your pastor, providing love Lutheran Church, as you mentioned, also, Islam Mossad is the Imam at the North Boston Muslim community center. And then next to Brad is Walter. And Erin is also such a sister sailor, She's the Executive Director of the Texas UU Justice Coalition. And she is a community minister at wildflower church in South Central Washington, and is a contractor wholesale, so she says, four o'clock since this is over, she's going to go seeking extreme about love. And a normal panel setting it would have like to have these people, right, because they have so much to give. But because we were hoping to really interact that a very in a very diverse way against celebrate our differences in diversity is reality, right? We emerged into a diverse world. There's not any couple in this place that agrees on everything ever, all the time. We all change our ideas, and our bodies are everything's changing everything is diversity for a whole lot. So I think we can rest assured that diversity is reality, and we should embrace it and celebrate it. And that means differences are good. You know, we're not supposed to agree, we're supposed to be different. With all that said, I'm gonna introduce Reverend Dr. Stephen Kenny. Dr. Kenny is just a great guy. And

he's the only one who calls me doctor.

He's been a mentor to a bunch of us actually. And, and a great example. And that's one of the reasons we want him to sort of run the panel. He had a project called the front porch project for about 10 years. That was really kind of what this is about what this event is about. When we model a lot of things often what Steve did he he was trying to create dialogue between the secular sacred worlds, and his whole career, I think. And so he was for about 10 years getting into the shelter sphere garden, and then doing like a Eucharist, and a conversation and a benediction and beer and you know, like full identity, who are you someone and video and interviewing an incredibly diverse population of people from the chief of police, to famous authors, all kinds of things, but he's gonna run the panel. He's also a recent retired from all saints of physical and recently retired as the board president of Interfaith action in Central Texas. So what we have is Don Jr, and various Steve handle, but I'm like an informal musician II type person. So we're, we're gonna try to work with both here, you probably get some really cogent, crisp and deep ideas. But we also want to be loose and just energized and be yourself, be honest, and be vulnerable, be angry, whatever, but share when the time comes. We're gonna do this for about half an hour. And then we'll open up to the community conversation with the town hall and this microphone in the middle. I think that's all I have to say. So thank you again for being here. Thank you, Billy, for hosting us and the physical church of the resurrection. And here it is. Dr. Kennedy. Thanks for

Rev. Stephen Kinney 14:26
years. You know, I think we all are hyper aware, we're almost even as they call it triggered by the trauma of our current cultural and political and environmental consternation. There's a lot of pessimism. There's a lot of depression. It's not a happy time. And I like to think because of my own faith and the people that I believed in, that this time is actually a birth time. It's transitional time, and it can go in a number of directions. But I think events like this, admittedly, were a bunch of mustard seeds that had been thrown around. And, or as to plant that we had this APA gift, we throw lots of spaghetti on the wall and see, see what sticks, but it's growing. It's no Mustard Seed is starting to flourish with a new way of thinking about this pessimistic time. And I like to think of Chris Searles as the midwife of this new birthing, at least in this time and space, right? In these three acres. I've seen Kritis work tirelessly to pull people together to promote the event to build relationships. And our hope is that being called to tear will somehow inspire more and more neighborhoods, blogging at a time person at a time to care. And at the end of the day, is at the heart of my sacred tradition, is this idea of the Greek word is to Cairo, Sunni. It's justice. But really, that's the that's the word. That's the abstraction for right relationship. How do we restore right relationship and create justice, through our partnering through our kinship through our dialogue? So my hope for today is along those themes that each of our panelists, and we'll start with the mom Islam, giving them a chance to just respond to the question, what does it look like to care in your community, in your, in your faith perspective, if you will, or anything else that you think relates to the theme because we're trying to get our neurons bouncing around, so that we can really have a good regenerative Crucis favorite word, conversation between us, and hopefully something new will will arise. So each panelist will have, you know, anywhere from 15 seconds to three minutes. Because if you do the man that really hands up, and, and just just put something on our plate for our digestion, and then we'll have a little back and forth on the panel. And then we'll open it up. Sounds good. Okay. All right.

Imam Mossaad 17:45
Thank you, Kenny. So thank you all for coming on this Saturday where you could be doing million one other things. But I start first of all, we say Bismillah R Rahman r Rahim, which means that in the name of God, who was Gracious, the Most Merciful. So as both of you were speaking, Chris and Reverend Kenny, that something that came to my mind was that the chapter of the Quran is called the sun. So the sun is very important, not just symbolically, but clearly for five for itself. And so in that Surah, which is the English chapter of the Quran, if you allow me maybe a few more seconds, I can let you do what it sounds like, because I'm not a musician. So I'm not gonna be playing any music. But the closest thing you could add is not music, but it has a kick ality to it. So so I'll let you hear what the sounds like. And then I'll give a very brief explanation. Even though it might be volumes, I'll make it as brief as possible. In due respect to all the panelists, so the chapter of the Quran, I'll go ahead and recite it. Again. It's about the sun, the moon, the rivers, the nature around us, but then very quickly goes into the soul of man. So right after about nature talks about the soul of man, because nature is inside of us as well. So and the rectification of the soul of men. And then some explanation for the recitation. So I will end with the mistake, let's do it that way. So the end is very interesting because it gives a particular example of an Arab Prophet was named Masada. And his people thought that the mood and the sign of that prophet was a miraculous she Campbell, which God sent it to them as a sign that he was a true prophet. And he warned that we said Do not touch this cow. So again, nature in this case, an animal that is been deemed safe The grid that is not to be touched he warned them about this and they would have a day where they would drink from the wells. And then the next day they would allow the camera to drink from the wells equally sharing the resource. But his people deny this and hamstrung the capital and then they got the punishment of God often don't worry the next chapter which we're not going to talk about has a good ending. But whether it will how do you find good or bad i mean they they hamstrung the she camel of God which which they're warned not to do so that's the predicament so I'll let you hear what sounds like just work for a little bit of flavor here Mina shame on you or team Bismillah was man what he was Shamcey magoha One common either one either one lately sang was semi Donna 101 FC you one. So for anyone that might have worked on Gordon F Zeca. Well God forbid this can then lead them all to the

spa for God Rasul Allah He was Furkan move found further temana You are on board be them beam won't fall for more so that is the chapter

will yield to the rest of the panelists

Rev. Stephen Kinney 22:32
very beautiful. Very beautiful. Thank you

Imam Mossaad 22:39
let's talk to Shannon how are they can can it jump me somewhere else? was very beautiful. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Rev. Stephen Kinney 22:48
Right does anybody have a thought to anything that Imam Islam presented or do you feel inspired to go next anybody?

Chi Chi and I'm hoping that you will not in competition with a mom was maybe more flavor with a mandarin Chess

Ven. Jue Ji 23:25
Champion award will be in Chinese China. He is number one. You know, the, in this chapter one of the Genesis statistics is this. It says ask the question, how can you be that that and not be the center of the universe. So you can put in other things there in that parenthesis. And so I'm thinking of like people, people telling me what I can think that when I step on the platform, and I see to bacon sit on the bed, never thinking of Joy said center show I said at the end of the time, and I don't want to be the center of this pen. And then I don't want to be the first thing if he asked me to talk Euro perfect. I know when I come to this question, how can you be a panelist and not to be the center of the universe. So wherever I sit, I will be the center of the universe. And so I think to myself What would be a Buddhist language to say, to be the center of the universe, it's, it's not common in Bodensee language, we will say that. They said, instead of saying the center of the universe, they should be the Master, the Master of something. So to be a master of congregation to be a master, yourself, as an individual. So let me tell you a story in Buddha's time, that in a congregation, then the disciple of the Buddha asked the Buddha question, what is the difference between an ordinary person and a stage holding person? Since we're talking about secular and help me what is the other single, exactly? The sacred, the sacred, okay. And so, what is the difference between these two? So, you know, the reason why Buddha's spend time live his household lives to practice is to solve the problem of human suffering. And so, it starts from the key word of suffering, he says that for an ordinary person, if you physically in your physical body, you suffer, and that would affect your mind. So your mind that would have depressed you have worrying about your physical conditions, where if you are sacred person, a sage of wealth, spiritually cultivated person, then even though physically you have had, but mentally, you don't have that, do you like that? Like that, come to the church, run through the temple, cultivate pain that makes the difference between an ordinary person and a holy person. So, he says that the Buddha says that, so for you guys, as my disciple, then I will tell you, you have to work hard. And the more God you will, his language is right effort. Okay. And when you work hard, you cannot be sidetracked by eautiful. Woman, hey, by handsome gentleman. By delicious food, okay, you don't have to be mindful. So we call it right mindfulness. So with right efforts and right mindfulness, then you will walk on the right paths that you cultivate and you can get rid of suffering. So if you do that, then you can be the master of yourself. So this is how I tell my congregation that if you want to help others, if you want to make this world, a beautiful world to live in, then you have to know how to take care of yourself, feel master of yourself. And with that coming called the cultivation, the virtues that we cultivate, for example, patience, tolerance and compassion that can help you in taking care of others and in taking care of others that even though that physically you may see pain that occurs everywhere. As human beings, we suffer, okay. But when you know how to cultivate yourself, then your mind okay, it will not affect your mind. So that you can continue is continuously having that strengths to help others. Otherwise you will be overwhelmed by the suffering of the world. That's my share

Rev. Erin Walter 29:40
was a hand at the mic, so I guess I could go. So I do want to say I remembered Aaron Walter, and thank you for having us and thank you for being here. And when we when we started planning this. My job was a little different. So I'm in a new role as your neighbor we're not too far away. I'm also on the interim The street team at First Unitarian Universalist Church of Boston, which is at 47, and Grover. So in the spirit of neighborliness, I just bring greetings from that and congregation today as well. Unitarian Universalism is a non creedal faith. So I'm extremely blessed to be one of two on this panel today. So I don't have to pretend to speak for the beliefs of all your views, because you'll have two different examples today, what we have are principles and sources. And among our foundational principles are the inherent worth and dignity of every person.

Audience member 30:41
So you don't have to earn

Rev. Erin Walter 30:43
that worthiness is a key for us, we are known as really active people. And so I wore my yellow sign of love stole today, because you may recognize those if you go to the Capitol, we're often in these sort of gold, yellow T shirts that say sign of love. But those actions that we're taking in our faith are not what make us worthy, we're doing it out of care for everyone. But but we come from a place of inherent worthiness in our faith. And then another pillar is the interdependent web of all life. So I was a little embarrassed when Dan and I had the conversation in my house in Bastrop, about Dominionism, because I said, I don't know if I've ever said that word out loud before. It's not a part of I grew up Unitarian Universalist, it's not a part of my favorite language. So it was a new thing for me to wrestle with it. And to be honest, it's a new thing for me to wrestle with it with all of you. So thank you for the invitation. But what I would say is, while we don't talk about it that way, as a denomination that strives to be multicultural, and anti racist, we are also a white culture, dominant denomination. And so whether we say, we believe in dominance, our actions often show that we believe that about ourselves or our actions. And so we're working on what right action means for us, in this world. And so I would say when I think about the politic care, I think about what it means to be accountable to others, and whom do I belong to. And so Dan is one of those people I belong to. And Kaya is one of those people I belong to a nag. Care is someone I belong to. And I think about how my actions relate to those people that I belong to. And as innovators in the face, I believe that we all belong to each other in that interdependence. And that goes for therapy. So I'm just looking forward to hearing from the rest of you and learning from you today. And listening is another piece of the way that we are committed to caring, because one of our sources is live experience. So each of you carries with you truth, we believe we say that Divine Spark is in all of you. So I'm looking forward to having even more sensitive divine by listening to all of your lived experiences today. Thank you.

Rev. Brad Highum 33:21
There's so much, and it seems to be in too many communities so little attended to a lot of what I've heard so far breaks down on this seeming dichotomy between orthodoxy or the practices, there's right effort, or through practices, that doesn't seem to get enough potential, and orthodoxy, right belief, we are all about that. And we as a Lutheran confessional tradition, creedal tradition, are exhausted in our writings and our pronouncements. And here on the eve of the celebration of the Reformation, and all of that is this, it almost seems a little heretical to talk about the book of James. But Luther had decided problems with that book, because it seemed to cover being this idea that grace is the way by which God makes us right with God, which is entirely on Monday. With James, there also is the idea that something comes out of that righteousness, that right belief, and it is right practices right after. James says that faith without works is dead. Tell me about your faith, and they'll show you my faith by what I do. So there's a kinetic expressed element that comes into play there. And we hear these in, in Jesus teaching, I was trying to think about a particular part of Judeo Christian book that can address this well, and it's Jesus teaching about the sheep and the goats rivers in Matthew 25. There's this remarkable place where he teaches about the separation of those that seemed to be pleasing to God, and those that do not, please God and many traditions have attached to this as a way of deciding who gets in and who does that there's always this sort of punching by ticket making sure that there's a way for me to get my sorry, self to paradise. And it seems to be absolutely contrary to what he's talking about. This is the place where he says, when you saw me hungry, you fed me. When you saw me naked, you clothed. And the disciple, he goes through many of these, when I was in prison, you visited me when I'm sick, he ministered to me. And the disciples look at it and say, when did we see you sick, or naked or hungry. And Jesus says that every time you saw one of the least of these, my neighbors, you saw me, every time you ministered to one of them, you minister to me, and then he does the Congress as well. And the ones that are, are pleased God by being altruistic and caring, are cheap, and they go in, they enter into the joy of the master. And then the ones that fail to recognize or fail to respond to the needs, also failed to recognize or respond to the one who is there to be cared for. And they are the boats that they go into the what's called the SCOTUS, externals, the outer darkness, where there's weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth. And of course, thinking in with our heaven and hell theology, we get older, we start thinking about sheep and goat, Kevin, and the goats are going to hell right. And yet, we have to couple that with Jesus teaching, that all of this takes place in a present reality. These are not some futuristic, ideal, or deadly places that are being talked about. They're, they're places where we are in the midst of life, we find ourselves a part of that divine economy, that divine flow of goodness and grace, and it reaches out and administers to the cares for and meets the needs, especially in release that we are participating in paradise on earth, heaven on earth, when we talk about the ways in which I must confess, I have walked past I've missed so many opportunities to be a caring, compassionate person in my own. We live in a place of darkness, not in the Hereafter, and not forever. But there. So we begin to in all of this time, Jesus is talking about the fact that when you miss the neighbor, or you serve the neighbor, it is me that you're missing or me that you're serving. And this touches ground, I think in an even deeper way. We are part and parcel of one in the same creation, this is the idea that has in some ways been supported positively, in other ways, seems to be almost kind of a Christian takeover methodology. We are of one substance with all the creation, we are a center, an expression of utterance. And all of us are and all of our neighbors on Earth. And not just our by beetles, but our for livers and our wing, and fin and all of the material substance of creation, our utterances of the one insane, and the light of that divine rests at the deepest level of ourselves at the deepest level of all creation, and it just wants to shine for you. So when we minister to one another, when we care for one another, we are caring for that divine essence in the other and proclaim proclaiming our unity and proclaiming the complete interconnectedness of all life at all. And my prayer is that the church can prize that worth of Praxis over the orthodoxies that seem to have us grabbing one another by the end

Rev. Jimi Calhoun 39:23
I'd like to share something sure a couple of thoughts, one of which is similar to the song that I recorded on my third album and it said, basically, caring is sharing. And when you do that, there's no comparison. And I'd like to speak at Adobe and give you two two ways of which people thought they were carrying and when they went off the rails a little bit. And one of which is the storage domain. And I, my wife, we belong to a community called me I only community in Scotland. And the premise there is in work, and worship God is with you. So very much along the lines of what my brother just shared. It's about doing things, it's not about a lot of distraction. So one of the fellows in the community, a couple went down to Ghana. And they were, they were from Scotland, which at the time was the eighth richest country on the planet. The woman went down there, they were missionaries ever gonna spend, you know, the considerable amount of time there. She was pregnant when they left Scotland. When they got to God, she was ready to give birth. Will the Canadian custom is when somebody has a new mouth to feed the community chips in to, to get by naturally, to take the load off the family that had the kid that didn't see what I'm saying. So these people who had very little they, what they had to a couple who have infinitely more than them, and in terms of finances, tell them that you're part of our community. And because you are a part of our community, we're gonna treat you as though you are. That's very important to be to be made to feel welcome. I've lived in the United States a considerable amount of time. And for the majority of that time, I've not always felt welcome. Every place I don't think about the radical welcome is a very difficult thing to do. In the evangelical circles, where I put again, we have this, this idea we, we like to trumpet what it is we believe we're doing even when our actions don't match what it is, we say on Sunday morning. And a good example of that is the way races relate to each other. Just last week, another story that is the complete opposite of the one I just stole. Whereas there is a large church in Virginia that we're aware of. There's it's predominantly white, there is a smattering of black people in the church. They decided they wanted to do something about racial reconciliation, and there was a white person that was spirited. So they got several books by black authors. To get into the comic congregation to get them to read about what it meant to be live in America, they take it to the white pastor, and he goes, Oh, he found something wrong with every single book. Many guys, they went on amazon.com and don't buy a white expert on risk of reconciliation, instead, that's the one we're reading. Here, buddy shared very well with the people he needed to be listening to. So if I would say anything, if caring, it starts with listening, when it comes to data relating to the people learn to listen and listen to learn, and that's about all of my poetry.

Rev. Kiya Heartwood 44:29
It's hard to be in the middle. Well, the thing that I think would add to this conversation, perhaps is what we have in common being all living in this culture. And one of the aspects of that that really stands out as a new turning Universalist is our first principle as as I already said it was that inherent worth and dignity of all people but I want to expand that because we are all related. That's a Lakota statement. But we are all related. Now not just talking about that people with two legs, two arms, no matter what color you are, there are other species and everything is connected in the web of existence. We're all related. But a lot of Americans, regardless of how you were raised, I have settlers mind. And what I'm suggesting that we might consider is that science is not always right. And science leaves out a lot of things. We need a spiritual science, we need a combination. For example, the way the earth works, nobody knows. They tried to build a biosphere doesn't work. Nobody is so advanced, that they understand that why everything in the whole of existence is connected. Just think about that for a second. So what I'm suggesting is we get a native, instead of a settler mind, for native mind. And I don't mean indigenous mind, I know that's connected. I'm saying we need to be native to this place, and assume perhaps, that we don't know everything. And just by adopting a more humble position, we might be able to learn something, I do better, instead of having to do it in a scientific way, which is you have hypothesis, ie that we run the world, for example. And then you have to prove it's not true, to undo the damage that was done, and then come up with a new hypothesis that might be close to the truth. So what I'm suggesting is that we get a more native mind and go hmm, I don't know enough about this. I need to watch and not necessarily interact with something. I don't know what what the outcome of my actions are going to be. Does that make sense? We're talking to? Yeah. What I'm saying is, what if we just sat for a minute and didn't act? Because we don't know. And pay attention and see what is working and pay attention to the people who have been more concerned with the earth for longer, are respectful of the earth and maybe listen to what they're saying. I think that's our best chance and in dangerous times that we live in. That's the lamest.

Rev. Stephen Kinney 47:46
Before Dan opposes the panel discussion, Dan, I have just been on the website with the the interviews that you did for the Dominion topic. And so much of what I've heard here, talks about our identity, you know what? Mastering ourselves subduing ourselves, I think, is how, in your interview with literacy, he talked about some details. So anything that I want you to tie up any loose series for more as the editor of this subject, if you could just stir stir us up in a way that we can engage in a panel discussion. So just take your time and lay it out.

Rev. Dan De Leon 48:37
Thanks. So getting back to the initial prompt and trying to move this forward of from your was carrying you from a payment perspective and what is Medicare for your community. So I am a pastor in the United Church of Christ Baptist reared a little Bryan College Station, which is an entirely different culture from where we're sitting right now.

And I'm thankful for all that. Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind, strength and love your neighbor as yourself.

Jesus says, And the response to him is and who is my neighbor? And then he tells a story, which whether we are familiar with a spiritual realm or a secular realm. We all know some variation in the story. The parable of the Good Samaritan, where when a guy's walking down a dangerous road is beaten and robbed and left for dead. A priest walks by season and doesn't enough, a Levite walks by and season does nothing. For once he stereotypically should help. And that a Samaritan who was despised in his time in context, despised by the heroes of the story, stops Jesus's intentional amount of being a sprinter and helps this person go To further beyond the normal, this person puts them up in a motel. And an end, gives more money than he needs to get to be able to care for his person says, I'll be back to check on time the story Jesus says, who was more of a neighbor of the story? And the person who asked me who is my neighbor says, the guy who stopped us, America. And Jesus says, Go and do likewise, flipping the question on its head, where we asked who was my neighbor, and he says, he had an image together be a neighbor. Being a neighbor, you have to you have to care. And in being a neighbor, we have to acknowledge what has been said before the interrelatedness of everything. Because in doing that, you can't really ask Who is my neighbor? But even if you want to ask who is my neighbor, making cheese in it is, even from a seller's perspective, we have to care for the earth, the creatures within we are interrelated to be able to survive,

Rev. Stephen Kinney 51:04
you do that

Rev. Dan De Leon 51:06
you're helping everyone, the ones that you're picking and choosing who is my neighbor.

So you can't even ask, all you can do is be a neighbor, and be a neighbor, we have to be just as selfless as we are naturally, oftentimes selfish. So this kind of speaks to the topic of Dominionism, which we'll get to in just one second. But in terms of caring for our community, I just wanted to share a quick example in store that kind of ties back to my friend of mine was on the side here, who was also an imam in our community college station for one night, a few years ago, someone who was not focused on being a neighbor, took a gun, and took a few shots at the Islamic community of ACS mosque, damaging the entrance, intimidating the people who would go in there to pray. And when the news broke about that, I spoke with a mutual friend of ours rabbi in town. And so what do we do? My Rabbi friend is out of town, but suggested it's Friday. Our friends, were having prayer, need to go and be in solidarity with our friends, we're having prayer. And so we put the word out, we're going to form a human chain around the mosque, to send a message to anyone who would hurt our neighbors, that this isn't how you treat your neighborhood. And you know, who showed up? It wasn't like minded people. Like Chris was saying before, there was a wide swath of people from the community, civic leaders who I noticed a group agenda and all kinds of matters, people from different religions, and lack thereof. And we had a great time, it was hot, so hot was in the summer. And we should have water with each other and Europeans, okay, the police showed up and help out. But the message was that in spite of it being a stereotypically conservative place, which would stereotypically be opposed to Muslims gathered to pray out of deep seated Islamophobia, in spite of that message was that we all understood, you don't mess with the neighborhood. If you shoot at this mosque, you're shooting at our neighbors, and you don't do that. You just gotta be a neighbor. So when it comes to looking at Dominionism vaccine, the what Chris was sharing before about the topic that we're all addressing here, I just wanted to be really briefly so that we can kind of get to the conversation, right? You said this context. And of course, we have read that context. We have taken and we will make humankind and let us make humankind are like us and they will subdue the earth, billiards, do it, have dominion over the fish of the sea and birds of the air, the Canada livestock, every freaking crop thing on the earth. And along comes the Industrial Revolution. And you know what the what Bible verse was preach more than any other throughout the Industrial Revolution to the Christian church, Genesis 126. Not to be able to be transformed and changed by what it means, but to be able to justify what was going on and extracting anything and everything from here. So, subduing was understood in terms of subjugating dominion was understood in terms of dominance, rather than coming alongside. So getting back to the contexts of interrelatedness and coming alongside I think that's how it is that we can express how we care what does it mean to come alongside

Rev. Brad Highum 55:02
versus dominating

Rev. Dan De Leon 55:04
and subjugated.

Rev. Stephen Kinney 55:07
That's brilliant. Thanks so much. Before we open it up the idea is that if you have a question for a specific panelist, just let us know or in general, the question, if you have a statement, your own thought that's been triggered by anything that said, now's the time to just come up and share that with the whole group. And then we'll just respond is as needed. Okay. Anybody want to say anything? Bread?

Audience member 55:39
Yes. So to say, I feel like, you're also talking about the sundry values, they are very enthusiastic, but the perhaps countercultural values? So my question, my worry is, how do we, how do we bring those values against the culture? who approves has such powerful mechanisms for propagating its own bias for reproducing? And preaching some values to the people?

Rev. Stephen Kinney 56:05
Yeah, great question. You want to get a response to that.

Rev. Erin Walter 56:16
Just start by saying a little bit at a time, every conversation at a time. A lot of times, I think we hear in the church people wanting the church to be I'll hear, you know, we want the church to be known for our justice work, where we want where we want the church to grow. And I'll say, Well, who have you talked to lately? You know, who are you having in your home for dinner? Who are you inviting to your rock and roll show? So so the spirit of it all is is one conversation at a time before this, I'm I Voted sticker. Before this, I was in a, again, on the go phone and text bank with the Poor People's Campaign, if you're not familiar with the Poor People's Campaign, I highly recommend looking at my web, they have an incredible Bible if you're ever so I didn't grow up with a lot of Bible. And as I've been wanting to have more Bible literacy, I picked up the poverty injustice Bible that is used in the Poor People's Campaign, and they highlight sections that have to do with poverty, injustice, so I, I commend that to you. But at any rate, I'm opening up who we know and who we talked to, and taking those little actions. So our 40 people on a zoom, texting voters to get out the vote in a nonpartisan way, going to change everything. No. And yes, you know, every little faith action that we do, every conversation and with our own people, we often want it to be that it's like someone else, but with our own families, our own people. That's my first time.

Rev. Stephen Kinney 57:46
In brand. I'll add to that where, like, my son is 23 years old for him. It's dire, that he's very depressed about the powers that be and the hopelessness of what his generation is facing. You and the word apocalypse comes to mind. Right? The Apocalypse is the Greek word for to reveal. And when all when everything falls down what's left? And that's what I said in the beginning. This is a dire time for a lot of people. And I think, politically, culturally, the consternation is so powerful that the greatest temptation is to be hopeless, right. But my hope is that this apocalyptic time, where systems are failing, where water is not being, it's drying up, I think of Capetown 2015. When they went through their three year drought, rich and poor had decided that there's no water. So they literally had to come up with a community plan. That was kind of a worth pain period that gave birth to I think a more caring, it may have moved the needle just a little bit, but just enough in Cape Town where they became more aware of how independent we are, and how we really do have to care or else you know, we're all done. But we're not. Okay. Thank you. Any other thoughts to that or any other questions?

Audience member 59:34
I'm here today because I am in a but yeah, my neighborhood on saw a flyer at torchy taco, and went on the internet. I looked at it and I said, Okay, I'm gonna go here with the talking about and I do think these are apocalyptic times, but as the Amman said, I don't personally label it as good or bad if it is the end. At least I'm getting to see it and live it. And I'm alive for it. If it's the end, if it's good or bad, that's not for me to judge. But what like the Buddhist sister spoke about. My purpose is to be here now is to be present with the people I'm around right now, right here. But what came to my mind when you were talking is, for the past 30 years, I haven't owned an automobile. And I think I don't know, bills are gonna destroy the Earth, I think it's, it's, it was 100 over 110 last summer, and I was out on my bicycle, and that really, really sucked. But all these cars were out there and people were still in them. And maybe somebody else came on their bicycle today, I don't know. But I saw online was the only one. And what you said, I forget the exact words, but something about the Christian hierarchy will take down something it those weren't your words, but it was kind of what you're talking about the white male supreme supremacy that has brought us to this position we're in today, and we're all living it. But here's what I really want to say, when I'm on my bicycle. Or when I'm a pedestrian, I always have the attitude, I'm going to give the people in cars, the chance to be courteous, that's my gift to them is that they can choose to be courteous, they can choose to stop at the stop sign, and not terrorize me as I'm trying to walk across the street. And when cars are courteous, and so much the time they are people are so courteous out there. And when they are looked and I look at them, and I'll go like that, I'll give them the love back, I'll give them a blessing. And so I really feel like I am a part of my community because I'm interacting with it when I'm on my bike, or I'm walking and I see someone walking, or I live near the school for the blind. And sometimes they'll be in the state property just walking in a circle because they can't figure out how to get out. And all this elbow, ask and I assist. And if I see someone on a bike or walking and they look like they need some help, I'll ask can I assist and people do that to me too. So it is neighborly, it is about being an expert. I like the way you said that.

Rev. Brad Highum 1:02:44
Absolutely. And I think that what you're talking about is doing that in the present in ways that are meaningful and impactful for folks around us. I don't know if we it coming out of this, or into this post pandemic timeframe, if we really understand yet, how deeply we've been impacted by the isolation and separations that we've experienced in the last few years. Something as powerful as a smile, a greeting, offering your name, meeting a new person. These are ways of beginning to re bridge and rebuild community among people that we don't know. Never underestimate your ability to impact the course of major exploitative industries. We don't have to harvest all the fish, we don't have to cut down all the trees, there are ways that we can combat those efforts as well. It just remarking on the one point that where the Christian takedown, what I was referring to is a shadow side of the medium ism that I've been reading about. And this is an entirely different take on the idea of this being a stewardship or a caring procreation, invitation, a very decided level if and we'll name some names here on the part of organizations like relay, Jerry Falwell's, and continuing in this organization, this idea of a Christian hegemony, that Dominionism is meant to mean Christians are called to take control. And I can't think of anything more dangerous, but and sponsored by people like Ted Cruz, I mean, there are political people and people in the in the religious sphere, that are propagating this idea that Dominionism as we're talking about, it doesn't go far enough. So we've got to be aware that a lot of different agendas and plans are in play, and at the same time, be reaching out to grace and love to the world.

Imam Mossaad 1:04:52
Thank you, both for those comments are interesting. I actually want to go back to the word the bad news. About Some do, I think some do is a really a trigger word. And when we talk about, you know, trauma, or certain things that trigger, you know, this recollection of what, so for a native peoples, for the people of Africa, the Middle East, who of India, who are dominated by Western imperialism and colonialism, the words of new is, and I think, if we look at the alternative language, which is to shepherd which is to love to care, as we're, as we're using today, and then the very powerful word Arabic We say a rump, which some people trust as Lord, but problem is more of one cultivates. And so this is a wide idea of the garden. So God has a garden of cultivating us. And even when it comes to the self, to say, I'm going to send it to myself, there's a there's a potential for violence, as well. And so the word of the Quran has said that the one who is successful is the one who grows himself. So growing includes pruning, and trimming bad planning bad things, but also allowing to grow. And so I think we just really have to change the language to to answer the question, how do people visit this radical change the way in which starting within ourselves within our families, communities, and, you know, I say that love? Thank you.

Chris Searles 1:06:54
We're hoping people will share their questions and thoughts.

Audience member 1:07:03
And I'm struck with this Dominionism movement that's happening with tape about how little they read their Bible. And how many verses in the Christian scriptures and I think in the Jewish Scriptures, and it sounds like also in the Quran, talk about whoever wants to be first must be the servant of all, whoever wants to be first must be last. Whoever wants to be over other people has to minister to everybody. And they, I remember in the 90s, there was some kind of green revolution and evangelical movement where they talked about this for five minutes. That how they needed to be the servant of creation. But that's gone on. And I would love to see it come back. And I'm glad y'all are preachiness in your churches.

Chris Searles 1:08:01
Anyway, anybody about how to sort of flip flops or bubble around trying to find its identity as environmental care, religion, faith, or to practice anyone sort of talk about an interesting 30 years of politics? You know, this is real. No, no, no, no, we don't care about this. Like he was saying evangelicals at one point were kind of excited about environmental care. And then it turned into a much larger longer project.

Rev. Stephen Kinney 1:08:32
It seems like the energy comes and goes right and waxes and wanes does the mistakes are getting higher and higher. And Chris, you said something at the not under one sky for I ag that really struck me and I won't give the full context but the way you said it as a one liner really has gotten me thinking but you said that we must all learn what it means to be indigenous again. What did you mean can you just open that up? Because that seems relevant to what we're talking about.

Chris Searles 1:09:13
Well actually lower case and there's a good testable route for that. The alteration projects interview on at the same time, I can't remember right now. Over a year, but she's a great leader. She works as a un as an indigenous rights leader. And Janine is blessed anyway. She said at one point or anything her interview basically I'll call us towards her language is that we don't need you you know white people come into the rest. This is a Native Americans come into the reservation to help us. Many GCS become native to place images. We come here to where you are paid us to tell the pigeons and I have no idea what that event is. Like, what on earth does that mean? Now and in the time since then, maybe the reason I can't remember her name is, like I was saying, becoming native to where you are, is about being in relationship with the other living creatures that are around you. It's pretty simple. It's not a difficult concept. And so the easiest way to do that is literally just start talking to the other life that's around you, whether it's even seen or unseen, you know, the trees that you see when you drive to work or your commute, wherever you go, the the animals in your house, the birds overhead, you don't need to be weird about it. It's just normal, it's natural, there's so much nonverbal communication that we share with the other forms of life. There's a few people in here since we started, so I mentioned the beginning, we're 50%, by the end, we are you know, or we have something like 98.9%, or 7% of the same DNA as an oboe in a gym. And we have just so much genetic and physical intelligence in common with the other life on our planet. But there's a whole world of communication waiting for us. And so it's literally about treating other organisms on the planet, whether which type of organism from microcosm and for Microsoft by scouting, to Redwood, treating it like an individual treating it like a person, indigenous people, as we call them. Talk about the other life as the other people. Generally speaking, we're all people here. We're just different forms of people. I just stopped there for time. So some of those things,

Rev. Stephen Kinney 1:11:31
yeah, no, thanks for that context, and helping me remember that. So at the, at the red bitch that venerable JG hosted at the tip off 360, Tuesday night, I believe. At my table, we were talking about a similar theme as we are now. And it first there was a younger person in our table, who was overwhelmed and said, it's just gotten too political, I give up. And then another person at the table said, you know, for me, it all comes down to the gut, gut health, and that we need to eat diverse, a lot of diverse foods, to to cultivate a heterogeneous, diverse, bio diverse gut for good health. And that makes it we just started getting happy. We started talking about good soil. And everybody was talking about their plants and how they composed, we left the evening, thanks to the holiness of that place, in part with what's the concrete ideas for doing the least that we can do for now? I don't know what what the big macro answer is really, at this point? It's usually a provocative question. Absolutely.

Audience member 1:13:04
I'll be the provocateur. This is rather than

they'll hold that against. Here's my question. What do you do to guard yourself from becoming just as bigoted and prejudiced against those who think are bigoted and prejudiced? Using today's topic? How do you guard yourself from becoming just as dominating in your point of view, as you think those are dominating in theirs?

Chris Searles 1:13:31
But can we also have to work? How do you garden yourself?

Rev. Stephen Kinney 1:13:36
No. So how do we keep ourselves from otherwise, you know, in our effort to care and be the ones who care and are called to care out of our own sacred communities? How do we, I think that's right, like how do we not otherwise or be better than you or fall into that same self righteous trap?

Rev. Jimi Calhoun 1:14:07
But well, I'm from San Francisco, California. And I came of age, just at a time when the hippie movement was at its apex. I don't know if all of you are old enough to know what a hippie was. And if you're looking at my hair, I'm probably not the best example. Because they were supposed to be long haired, hippie freaks. But there was a time when I, you know, I kind of look like that. But the word came out about counterculture. Right. countercultural what does that really mean? Those of us who are activists out trying to make a better world see ourselves in this counterculture, the military But there's a difference between being countercultural, and being a member of the opposition political party. I know I'm gonna get in trouble.

Rev. Stephen Kinney 1:15:15
When did we ever shot?

Rev. Jimi Calhoun 1:15:20
But, but here's the deal, many counter culturalism is going against the assumption, the prevailing assumption of the day and saying we can do better than that. We may not know what it is, we may not have all the answers right now. But we're gonna ask ourselves different questions than the questions that are coming out in the newspaper every week. And what's on the minds of those people. I mean, changing the world doesn't mean trying to convince the world to be something minor is different than it already is. To recreate the world to reframe what's already happening, changing the world means changing the world, how can we have a better world when we're not willing to look for new ways of doing things. I read a story in preparation for my new book, and it was a biology grease. And the chain was due to go to have the coming out part of the ordination service for lack of a better term. And they were deceived. considerable amount of miles from the village where she needed to be, she had two roads, which meant she could travel, she chose one road. That was actually a lot harder, because she knew the other road had more animals and more bugs and more things that she would have to step on, on the way to the ordain. That means that she took into consideration that there was something or someone else, above her own comfort, before she even engaged in doing something that's countercultural, that's counter, our culture doesn't think that way, at all. And even when we get ready to be an activist, we want to do things that make us feel good. We want to do our part and say, well, I'll read more books on how to be a racist, and I'll do my part. And then when I get to worry about money, I'll just do live as I always have lived without caring. And I would say one other thing, and part of our ministry, and part of my work involves the disability community. And I then had 11 years. And we go every week. I'm in one of the facilities around Austin, my wife was on board at the State Center for six years. And we've advocated for different different churches and tried to get people to be more sensitive to the needs of what are called special needs to be limited. And, you know, there was only one time and that entire in my entire time on the board that we brought to the clergy and said, Have you considered how you can reconfigure your service, or you can rethink and reconfigure your building or to the needs of the eight or nine people other than to launch who did attend that care. And I'll tell you the story. One time we were having a meeting, and this pencil wheelchairs 27th Street, and one of the people showed up in a wheelchair that was too wide to get in the bathroom. So they went and found the guy the Marvin and Marvin took him down to the students and thinking there was another bathroom, they were trying to find out. We'll go to each location and try to find a restaurant to accommodate and this person didn't find it wasn't there. So the restaurant at the time found out about it. And within a year the project started to widen the bathrooms, the existing bathrooms and this and this I don't know the building is I guess I didn't ask him because the records they didn't

know that was that's the type of guarantee that when you start with the other person in mind, that's where you begin. It's not reactionary, it's proactive. How Oh my god effect, what are my actions going to other than the next person down the road? That's countercultural in our American What's In It For Me culture,

Ven. Jue Ji 1:20:11
and I think you inspired me about

gardening. And

I look aside from Taiwan, to Hong Kong first and then to the states. And so right experience, I have cultural shock open divers are rough, because things are one English, you guys talk English very fast, without knowing that I tried to be polite with the slime bag and who knows. So they might have home we have two communities, one is Chinese communities, and one is English communities, right? It's happened to be in English communities. And as a person is in Chinese, I was born in Taiwan, and the American culture, or the Western culture is quite new to me. And why as a monastic, I have to teach the people here are those Chinese who have been living in a state much, much longer than I have been. So it's quite a challenge. But I tell myself that if Buddhism can survive from India, to China, and then all the way into the space, and there must be some elements in Buddha's teaching, that he can adapt to local people to the contemporary, contemporary times. And so it's trial and error for me to see the similarities and differences between the Chinese community and the English communities. And so what you talked about a big word, and what is the Dominus The venue is, that's a very big vocabulary. But anyway, that's something dominating something else. And in my community, I'm trying to balance both. They have different they use different languages and languages itself, it differentiate even the same idea. And so for me, every Saturday is was English community, Sunday is for Chinese community. And you can see my brain is going back and forth, very busy with trying to go to law, nice to see how people need to care for them, what are your needs, and their needs, the needs of the most common communities can be contradictory to one another, the English community wants to talk want to express that Chinese community wants to hide away from the spotlight, just like me. And then I have to, I have to cultivate myself that when I wisdom, English community, I have to be more outspoken, and when I'm with my Chinese community, I have to be like them not to talk too much, and then try to be more conservative. And so in cultivating the care for other communities, you need to brand his nerve cells. This is a very central core, this idea that if you have a very big ego, it's very difficult to understand the what matters need. So we have that English word or compassion or empathy. Right? And if we, if we don't know, what are those things, then we can we can be approaching to that person a long way. And it goes on we also talk about we are not taking care of living beings, the sentient beings, we are also taking care of non sentient beings. And so, you, you if you think deeper about that Good boy that good here in his church is very beautiful compared with that of my temple and the beautiful wood, if you don't take care of them, then you will become old used an obsolete very soon. So you have to maintain the what we call non sentient beings and non sentient beings is as important as the sentient beings, and if a person who can extend the love the care to not only the human beings, that pet animals, pet dogs or cats, but also to the Coppins that microfoam the minds. And then that is that one person can be said that that is caring about the environment, everything. If not, then we are wasting a lot. And one more thing in the shock is that in the country where I come from, we suffer from Typeform we suffer from earthquakes. And so there are times about the time so they have a cottage power outage, we are short of water results. And so when I see people here, turning the tap water, and then you watching dishes, washing your hands, and while still talking to somebody else says no, no lengthen the time you're doing your machine that is very wasteful. I don't know how to tell them. So in my tempo, in Edit beginning we have we have the devotees to wash the dishes after meal. But nowadays, we use disposable kitchenware, pranks, because they wasted really a lot of resources. And our way nowadays, we also ask them to bring their own boards their own planes to to you to use for during that time. And I hope that maybe in my mind, talking about taking care of non sentient beings that can help our every one of us here to pay attention to what we use in our daily lives. And if you know how to take care of that, I bet you are feeling about people. And then you can emphasize about how others feel. Thank you

Rev. Brad Highum 1:28:04
heard someone early on in my life, say don't become what you hate, and hates a strong word. But these are really intensely polarized and angry times in a lot of respects. And the thing that I have to remember is, I feel like I'm in a in the company of neighbors right now very easily and comfortably in the company of neighbors. But I have to remember that Ted Cruz is a neighbor too. And I also have to recognize the fact that the very systems that are exploiting and destroying and threatening the viability of our survival, not earth survival, but ours, as a part of the earth perspective, are systems that I've benefited from all my life. And it's somewhere along the line, I won the cosmic lottery of being born a white male in 20th century America. And I don't walk around flogging myself for that, because it's a part of who I am. But it also conveys a responsibility on me to to act according to the social location and power that I have. And to turn it to as positive and purpose as I can. I was looking up some words I didn't know I thought we might have had the rabbi with us today, and I'm sketching on my Hebrew, but this Shabbat is demanding word that we're talking about in Hebrew is Rob. I think I'm saying that correctly. And it talks about the relationship between the master and slave between a superintendent and workers, between the head of the household and members of the household. So there's a lot of different ways that Dominion takes place. But it also has the added component in the definition, that that dominion is to be exercised in accordance with the one who grants the work. So you're demanding are by Dominion or someone's dominion. And the situation is intended to exemplify who is the grantor of that authority. And clearly in this super text, God is the one that's granting that authority. So that dominion is to be exercised in accordance with the character and nature and essence of the greater the authority. And another word that keeps coming up to me, is kind of ironic. It's we've been talking about a radical movement brand. And the word radical, the route that you need radix means roots. Radical is that leap that takes off to find water, nutrition, whatever it is. And our Our challenge as radicals is to reroute, I think we become torn up by the roots in some ways, by moving from a more closely connected, Earth centric world to a paved environment in the hidden urban centers, where 65% of us aren't. And so rerouting is an invitation to us in this whole perspective as well. Thanks,

Rev. Stephen Kinney 1:31:08
y'all. We have 510 minutes. So let's have another question out here. But also kya, do you have anything you'd like to follow up with, we gave that great opening statement. But after all, that you've heard,

Rev. Kiya Heartwood 1:31:23
just to his comment, I would say if you are thinking all the time, I could be wrong, and chances are, you're going to self worth.

The chances are, you'd be so fractious.

I mean, if you want to avoid that, like say hold on to that I could be wrong. And then do the Maya Angelou thing of when you learn better, do better. Something.

Imam Mossaad 1:31:59
So, a lot of a lot of things coming into my mind. But this is an exercise in discipline. And usually, you know, I'm by myself speaking, so this is my okay. But a lot of things coming, coming coming. So one of them, one of them is in the story of the quarter. There's King Solomon, and the kingdom and Israelites Son of David, because we upon both of them. And he is, you might see it as he's trying to subdue the Queen of Sheba and her kingdom. But it's very interesting in the story. She very cleverly articulates what she has done. When she understands the truth, this was worshipping the sun, instead of the god of the sun, and that story. So she says, I have surrendered. And the word that she uses is number two, which is the same word for Islam, which is submission to God about submission to any man or woman, but to God himself. That all the rest of creation is also in submission to Him. There's a personal plan, it says the sun is bound, and the moon is bound to him. The plants are planted. So then many people are and many people something else, and we're not going to get into that. When she says, I have surrendered. She didn't say I've surrendered to Solomon. She said, I have surrendered along with Solomon, to Allah, which is the word in Arabic for God, the Lord of all of the worlds. And so I think that's the answer is the Prophet Muhammad, this one upset that God has inspired upon me, and a lot of Be humble. For that, it's kind of stupid speaker but there's one that was being here but early, but just there was so that nobody will up offend another or transgressed against another, and no one will feel superior to another. So we've inherited this whole system of empires, whether it was the Roman Empire, and this is quite meaningful that we're in this church, you know, talking about the Roman Empire, but also the Muslims have their own empires. So it's not like one of the Roman Empire, Ottoman Empire go back into the same cycle. We need to just all be together and humble. From our perspective, submitting only to God, not to ourselves, not to our, you know, egotistical projections of thinking that we're speaking in the name of God, and it's something else. And the last time I mentioned, from conversation with Chris, and also about sentient non sentient beings, Prophet Muhammad responded is that talk to the trees at the top, there is a mountain outside of the city. It's called quote, he said, the mountain of Oakland is a mountain that we love and It loves us. And he used to address, you know, the mountain and so on. So the idea of being in communion with everything around us, but in submission to the one creator is, I think, the way forward that's my personal opinion is this utility humbleness, not trying to get back into empires, crazy stuff like that, because that's what's gonna bring more blood, you know, and in the end, the rapist and the one who was raped, they will suffer in their own way this. And, you know, we're doing that to the earth also. So we need to be careful because we're doing violence to ourselves as well.

Rev. Stephen Kinney 1:35:50
Now, there will be those that can last night's, but before we do any burning questions, or thoughts that you can bring into the Labor Day?

Audience member 1:36:08
Hey, my name is Mike. Not a question, but a thought as to what I'm present to, as you're speaking and, and as we're here, you got it as neighbors. Abraham Maslow said that in his sort of hierarchy of needs, that we cannot give, unless we have our own needs met. And that what Karen uses about is not looking sort of inward into ourselves, but looking outward to the needs of others, asking what's needed. And so what I'm focused on is that a need to get out of my own sort of fear and depression and, and sort of cynicism about the world and get that opportunity to bring in a soldier today, wow.

Rev. Stephen Kinney 1:37:13
It gives me goosebumps.

Audience member 1:37:18
But I want to sort of close this out with one thought about critique about Maslow's hierarchy that I read a while back. And that is that he sort of talks about the needs of the individual shelter, and food and belonging and self esteem. But what he sort of left out was that you can't, we can't, none of us can achieve those things without community, that we rely on the community to build our to become part of our group of belonging to help us build our self esteem. So I guess what I'm really present to is the community to wrap this up by saying thank you again, Chris, for creating this community and ringing the bell. But also just a need to sort of look out and not say, This is what I have to give, let's say, what is it that you need? So thanks for the question. Yes, just for a second.

That is, is that it takes a lot of courage to become the master over ourselves a lot, a lot of hard work, which you have all done in cultivating that in yourselves. And I think that just coming down to one little example, where I have a hard time, is, for example, for years, I have wanted to go into an animal shelter, and give love to animals and help animals, but I'm scared to do it. Because I'm scared, it will make me too sad. I'm scared, I will fall in love with an animal and I can you know, bringing the animal home right now. I can get you know, give you all these reasons that I just can't muster up the courage to do that. So then I go back into my own little comfort place. And you know, that's a hard it's,

Chris Searles 1:39:56
that's a challenge are changing

Audience member 1:39:59
things, aren't you? Ah, yeah, so I could do what I can do. So maybe I, I don't have the stuff to be able to go into a shelter, and witness that and take that home with me and become overwhelmed and depressed? Or how do I cultivate that courage. I'm using that as an example. Because that

Rev. Erin Walter 1:40:27
beautiful I just wanted to share. So I was always known as someone who would never have a pet, but especially not a dog. And one of those many, many people who became a dog person in the pandemic, my dog has changed my life for the better. But I just wanted to say that, you know, I keep picturing the beginning of the pandemic, which was full century for me, I lost my job, I was playing with my bands like kids weren't in school it was and we lost so much going to church. And yet, I have this beautiful memory of of laying in the grass on my garden, there's nothing else to do, and like to raccoons were like on a date. They were like, just like walking down the street in my neighborhood, everything was alive. And you can hear and hear that you hear the earth in ways in my neighborhood, which is a neighborhood I grew up in, I felt really deeply about neighborhood and roots. You can hear the earth in ways I have never heard it before. And I knew the animals in my neighborhood in ways I never had before. And everybody know that you to answer today is a perfect example too much is going on. But I'm carrying around with me this book, in the hope that I get it by osmosis. It's called rest is resistance, a manifesto from the nap ministry. Look up a nap ministry if you don't know it. But I just wanted to say that this is a time where we have an opportunity, it's an opportunity and myself to ask myself, Where can I do less? Where can I rest to listen and fortify my spirit in relationship to the earth? Because the Earth was alive. When we were doing less. It was thriving, our animals were thriving. And so now we're at that moment, after two and a half years, where we're looking our churches are looking at what what activities are we going to do again? And maybe what things didn't really serve us? And what things are going to do in our businesses and our corporate lives, those of us who work in the corporate world? And where are we going to can be saying no. So we're just we're in a very special moment, I think in our relationship to all things where we can ask ourselves how we might make more room for the Earth to thrive.

Rev. Stephen Kinney 1:42:40
Okay, we got any last thoughts or we'll close it up.

Rev. Dan De Leon 1:42:46
Good standings begin great music. So as far as the verb, what everyone has shared up here on this panel and in the congregation, this has been a really good conversation. And I'm encouraged by those that will follow after this countercultural I'm really glad that that came up. One of the other things just kind of bring them full circle with the paragraph that I wrote before about the Samaritan stuff to help. Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. had a sermon on that parable that always is, in my mind when I think about it, where he posed the question where the priest and a Levite, who passed by asked if I, if I stopped on the hill, this person, what's going to happen to me, is rather dangerous. Whereas the spirit has stopped and looked at him and said, if I don't stop this person, what will happen to him? And that kind of gets to the question I was asked earlier about how we guard them for ourselves in order to foster relationships with people that we differ with, is to create community livelihoods, community events like this, whether it's something as big or as simple coffee notation, where people that you differ with can be in a relationship with you. And you can, the way that you get that to happen is by asking the question, if I don't do this, what will happen to them. And what I mean by that is, so often the people that we disagree with, are coming from places and painting, where they are acting out in that manner, projecting it onto society in a way that we bore. But if we avoid their pain, it will simply fester and get worse. And so we by asked that fundamental question, what will happen to them? We get together now in conversation. Step two is in having these conversations with each other across our differences. We change the narrative away from the polarized theological questions and keep us divided and asking, what will happen to them? person that I differ with what will happen to the person who uses a wheelchair, when they find a bathroom that is wide enough? The entryway for them to get into it. What will happen to the LGBTQ youth is kicked out of their house because their parents were told by the preacher that their kid's gonna go to hell if they don't do it. Oh, and my kid, and I could go on and on down the list. But if you ask the question to people that you disagree with what will happen to them, the others that aren't in the headlines to divide us, then you start having a constructive conversation because I hadn't thought about it that way before. I'm glad we're having this conversation. So I'm encouraged and I think that the more we ask if I don't know what will happen to them, then that becomes a weapon device. That's good. So thank you.

Rev. Stephen Kinney 1:45:45
Thank you Dan. Perfect. Thanks for summing that up Chris. We love you Thanks for holding on

I don't know if you can make a short sutra that you can chant is that possible? Just it doesn't look a benediction

Audience member 1:46:10
10 Sorry about the Mary's yeah all right to be

Ven. Jue Ji 1:46:21
over you This is chanting in Chinese and written by my monster you it's said Laos saying that with regard to make vows to develop our compassion or kindness and then also love to share our joy all beings.

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Sutra & fade to music.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai